P.S. I find Chagall's work beautiful and fascinating. And, yes, I only became a fan after seeing the painting in Notting Hill (I am a Philistine). Here are some of his images. A recurring image in his work is of a man wrapping his arms around a seemingly indifferent and cold woman, which I am not sure what to make of (see here and here and here), though there are some more positive one's which are different (here and here).

Great post! I really appreciate her honesty.

Hmmm. I guess to me (as a girl) it felt like this post is common knowledge. Guys- perhaps things come across differently to you?

I have a feeling that as girls we don't want to come off needy or "high maintainance" and some girls may shy away from talking about this stuff for that reason.

But I know different folks have different backgrounds, Meg- I'd love to hear your thoughts on this (in reference to our conversation in the car).

I agree with her assertion that women want to be protected.

I also agree with her point that we are often conditioned from childhood so as to protect our hearts from a lack of protection.

I've spent the last 20 years or so recognizing and beginning to tear down the spiritual and emotional walls I've put up around myself that say, "I don't need protection," because I was left unprotected while growing up while my parents struggled in a bad marriage that finally ended in divorce when I was 15.

And, yes, in our society how many more kudos we get for showing our "strength" and "independence" instead of our need for each other.

Over lunch I was thinking about this post and decided that, yeah, women want protection. Then again the term “protection” usually connotes images of a woman screaming while a man implements a beat down. Not all of us desire the Rocky-Balboa-beat-down kind of protection. Honestly, that kind of protection freaks me out!
But, I suppose protection looks very different depending on the man’s personality. Some protection is verbal, “You just hurt her feelings. Back off!” Some protection’s physical: walking you home when it’s dark, or pulling you from the road when a car is whizzing past (this is one way Jacob really shines-I can’t tell you how many times he’s physically kept me from getting hit by a car, or approached by suspicious men). Some protection’s provisional: making sure you’re not put in unsafe situations by thinking things out ahead of time.
I don’t know, to me, protection is a form of chivalry, and chivalrous actions don’t threaten or disgust me in any way.
Personally, I’ve experienced a lot of men trying to NOT offend me by avoiding chivalrous actions, which was a bit sad in the dating years. At the same time, I-and I’m assuming I’m not alone in this- want to freedom to be chivalrous back. Not having my acts of chivalry well received can be REALLY hurtful. I very much have a desire to defend and protect the men I love in my life (dad, grandfather, husband, friends etc.). I suppose it would be a good thing for me to find out if guys have the longing to be protected and defended in the first place, or if they feel emasculated by my desire to do so.
In any case, I would love to see a world where woman as well as men go out of there way to look out for one another. So, by all means men protect us woman, but protect your brothers too!
Gender stuff has always interested and baffled me.

Sorry for the lengthy response. Yikes!

No, Heidi, lengthy responses are brilliant, and this is turning out to be a great discussion. I hope to chime in at some point, but for now let me just say, that perhaps Mr. Timberlake should have brought chivalry back instead
:)

:) Very much agree with you there.

the post was beautifully written and i think true, but i still have some uneasiness about some of these issues. i know as a woman i do desire to be protected and, even though I grew up being taught that chivalrous actions can be sexist, i always secretly liked them.
still, how much is the need for protection just part of the human experience and universal for women and men. I enjoy being served and taken care of by both my brothers and sisters in Christ. And, like you Heidi V., I want the freedom to be chivalrous to others (both men and women). So, i don't know if i have a point, per se, just maybe a question: do men also have this deep desire for protection? how does there desire differ from the desire that women have?

First, thanks Michaela for your post and permission to post it here.

I am one of those men who have felt slighted at times for attempting chivalrous acts. Such rebuffs sometimes do come, I think, out of a woman reacting to protection or help because she sees it as a form of control.

Sadly, this linkage of a desire to help with a desire to control is not completely unjustified, as protection or helpful actions done "for one's own good" without the consultation or choice of a woman have been viewed as acceptable and even what is right in traditional relationships. And, personally, I confess that that motivation, to want control, has at times been present in my own actions, if only in trying to control the fact that someone will continue to like me.

I think women rightly reject this type of "protection and care." And men who either impose "care" or presume too much are simply being abusive.

In corrective to this, sometimes I have overreacted and hesitated to talk about gender at all and the differences between men and women's needs and desires. This is one reason why this discussion is so refreshing.

I agree, of course, that we as men do need to be protected and cared for. In relationship to God, the protection and care we need is exactly the same as that which women need. C. S. Lewis' statement that "All souls are feminine in relationship to God," echoes Michaela's post, in that as a the Bride of Christ, we need his care. It also creates a patteren though for gender relationships as well.

The salvific aspects of Christ's care of the Church, of course, do not transfer to male and female relationships, but the loving and caring and protecting do, and this occurs most fully in marriage, in the context of a relationship which, hopefully, is built on strong and growing trust and love.

I like the notion that this should occur in male female relationships outside of marriage as well, though, of course, it will be both qualitatively and quantitatively different.

Do we as men need protection and care specifically from women? Whoa, that is a hard question to answer. I know we need care certainly.

Yes, I think we do need protection, because, women, here is a secret which is not really a secret, we are incredibly fragile, and I am not just talking about those of us who have experienced deep pain. It is I think protection of a different sort, though. I think we men do, when we are functioning properly, have a desire to protect and provide, which are in essence things to be "done." And I think we need the reciprocal "protection" that our efforts at doing this, though they may be imperfect or fail, will not be mocked, but, indeed, will be supported (again with the proviso that the actions aren't patently wrong, etc. etc.)

I will also confess that perhaps the hesitancy for men to enter and commit to relationships is out of a fear that we will be inadequate to the task, to do the loving and protecting and providing well. It is easier simply to check out.

Of course, the bad news is that we all, men and women, are and will be inadequate to the task, to any good task worth doing. The good news is that, for us Christians, Christ forgives us of our sins and helps us in our weakness, and should he call us to it provide strength to be godly husbands and wives, and to be godly and brother and sisters in Christ who bless and care for one another.

Heidi, how is that for a long post. Even so, it is so incomplete, both because I don't know all the answers (even of how I function and think) and because there is so many things to cover. Also, I hate the fact that there is this fear in me when I talk about these things, a constant need to qualify and restate. Hopefully, this conversation will help in eliminating those fears.

Sometimes I fear that when a man makes a gesture it is only because he thinks it's something I expect, so I question it, and hesitate.

Like if a guy pays does he really want to or did I accidentally imply that I hoped he would- and if so- oops, didn't want to be that transparent (or put unwarranted expecations out there!)

Men and women, haven't you ever approached a door at the same time and hesitate-- as a woman I sometimes rush at that door to get through it first, rather than deal with the possibility of it being dropped in my face.

Mutual hesitation- it seems like since there are no real "norms" to expect- we all hesitate like deer in headlights- what does the other person expect of me? Should I do the chivalrous or should I avoid any contact?

I'd love it if we could all get over fears and be boldly, outrageously gracious to one another! And to receive kindness, boldly and graciously!

Neil, thanks for your thoughts. What a blessing. I pray this conversation has, in fact, helped eliminated some of your fears.
"I'd love it if we could all get over fears and be boldly, outrageously gracious to one another! And to receive kindness, boldly and graciously!" Me too Heidi H! Please Jesus, help us!

I finally thought of something to add to this conversation. Here goes:

I love it when guys try and protect women from those stupid cultural ideals of beauty. My brother Jake was always good about this. He got angry when he saw how me and my sisters were sometimes sucked into the lies that told us we were not beautiful because we didn't look a certain
way.

When guys get angry about these issues it really helps girls. So often girls think guys won't like them b/c they don't live up to a certain standard. When guys show appreciation of real beauty and get angry about the lies the media thrusts in our face about our bodies, this protects us.

I should add there is nothing wrong w/ complementing a girl's outward appearance. It is important for girls to feel beautiful physically too...Not quite sure if this works outside a dating/marriage relationship, though I can think of some examples.

Oh, one more thing about my brother, I remember when I was in Jr. High (I think) my teeth where a mess (jutting out of my front gums). I also felt awkward w/ my body and unfashionable. Truth be said, I felt pretty low about myself.

I remember one day, we were watching a movie and Jake pointed out that I looked like one of the girls in the film who was pretty (not super-model). For some reason, this really, really, helped me especially as it came from my brother.

Oh, and in regards to my blog post of last summer...well...I think we're down to one guy at S. City!

On a positive note, one of my brothers (who used to go to this church) is getting married to a girl from New City. You just never know!

Laura, that is, indeed, protection or care of a very high order. It is a sort, I am ashamed to say, that is not offered as much as it should be, because guys too, perhaps even more so because we are so visually motivated, have a tendendancy to buy into the false values of our culture.